rockstar's game design is outdated

Rockstar's Game Design is Outdated - NakeyJakey

Thread starter Arion
Start date Dec 17, 2018

You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.

This is a really insightful and charming video. It's a bit long but worth the watch.

I don't think they are outdated. They just do their own things. Personally I hate what they do, but it didn't start with RDR2 in 2018, I've hated their games since the beginning.

Love me some Nakey Jakey, but 37 mins is a tall order. I'll give it a watch

Everything surrounding robbing side businesses is quite bullshit tbh. You're railroaded pretty hard into doing it in a set order as opposed to going about it the way you want to. Makes it really annoying for repeat playthroughs.

I've only just started RDR 2, are there any spoilers?

can we get a bulletpoint summary for those of us who cannot watch videos at work

Do not fix what is not broken. We will continue to get to missions where we meet folks and then walk or drive or whatever to the mission objective while talking on the road. It is just interesting how it blends realistic with game fantasy.

I agree though that walking during certain scenes should be faster as well as better menu / UI

I'll definitely watch it when I'm able.

I've only just started RDR 2, are there any spoilers?

the video uploader said that there aren't any story spoilers, just spoilers for side stuff

I think it's particularly clear that their control designs and general "feel" is very clunky. They aim for a realistic weight in games, from movement to shooting, but it ends up feeling frustrating. It's just so clunky and lethargic. Your character controls like a shopping trolley and the whole "walk at a snails pace always then hold x to run and tap it to sprint" thing is SHIT AND IT ALWAYS HAS BEEN. I'm legitimately shocked that they still felt that was OK in this day and age. We have analogue sticks Rockstar - for gods sake use them like every other game in the planet does.

Let me guess "game design" only means story mission design, not the open world design which is where the game truly shines from a design standpoint..

Their games are more fun when they were more arcade-y. The cover, stop and pop games exacerbate the pacing and gameplay issues.

Well yeah, the missions are way too railroady.

Hahahaha....A Thread a day...lol

OP: Cool video . Outdated? That's subjective, still the best open world game? Yea,(also subjective...but it gospel for me so take it as fact! Lol) find me who do them better. It works, it's what makes them rockstar games. Might not be for everyone, but it is for many(looks at the numbers)

Let me guess "game design" only means story mission design, not the open world design which is where the game truly shines from a design standpoint..

Dude, a large part of this video is dedicated to all the side mission design including strangers and businesses you can rob.

Let me guess "game design" only means story mission design, not the open world design which is where the game truly shines from a design standpoint..

I concur!!!

--R

People with no tags are the coolest

37 minutes of my boy Jakey? Is it Christmas already?

I've only just started RDR 2, are there any spoilers?

finish up the game and then give it a watch.

Almost done with the video. IMO Rockstar could really learn a thing or two from Ubisoft when it comes to Nonlinearity. Watch_Dogs 2 especially is one of the best case studies out there other than BotW which he mentioned.

That was a great video. Full agree with it. I never heard of this YouTubers before but I liked his style of presentation.

Not sure what's outdated about it aside from the default control scheme.

The Rockstar formula is fairly unique now, in that it actually combines narrative storytelling when you do missions with the freedom of the open world when you're just free roaming. The added interact mechanics make this so much better than practically any other free roam I've experienced in an open world game.

I aboslutely cannot agree that rockstar should commit to either thing like the video suggests. If they commited to the "free form" style of gameplay, then their narrative and cinematic style would suffer. And I dont think anyone could convince me that it wouldn't; every game that steers away from the more linear gameplay towards the more "do it however you want" style ends up having a much looser narrative to go with it. The way Assassin's Creed transformed with Origins shows this fairly well .AC games used to be fairly linera with their missions, but Origins and Odyssey are both playing very loose. Your objectives are very lax, and instead the game leaves the player to do "whatever they want". This creates more "creative" gameplay opportunities, at the cost of cinematic and setpiece moments. AC Odyssey may have 300 or so quests but only a very few were actually memorable. And that's coming from someone that actually loved the game. I personally don't think AC narrative is that great in the first place so I didn't mind this change.

But Rockstar? Fuck, their narrative and cinematic flair is so amazing, it's half the reason I love their games.

The game does aim for realism and immersion, even though it definitely lacks true consistency in that matter. However, I can't exactly think of any other AAA game right now that even tried something on this scale. I kinda hope they push this aspect even further for the next game, instead of just treating it like a one-off. Because it could end up being something really special.

Almost done with the video. IMO Rockstar could really learn a thing or two from Ubisoft when it comes to Nonlinearity. Watch_Dogs 2 especially is one of the best case studies out there other than BotW which he mentioned.

Shhh don't you know Ubisoft games are all just icons (probably didn't play Origins or Odyssey), all play exactly the same and they are souless (whatever that means).

37 minutes of my boy Jakey? Is it Christmas already?

Yeah, he really won me over with his Dark Souls video (where he's just talking about the game in bed). I've watched that quite a few times. Seems like a genuinely nice guy who enjoys being silly, but making good points along the way.

I need a horse with nitro

Exposition on the way to mission, plan goes to shit, kill hundreds.

The way Assassin's Creed transformed with Origins shows this fairly well .AC games used to be fairly linera with their missions, but Origins and Odyssey are both playing very loose. Your objectives are very lax, and instead the game leaves the player to do "whatever they want". This creates more "creative" gameplay opportunities, at the cost of cinematic and setpiece moments.

This is not true. AC Syndicate usually gave the player multiple ways to assassinate their targets and it was the last "old school" mainline AC game.

I wish people would watch the video, at least even just the introduction, before coming in to dump their hot takes.

Quinton

RPG Site, RPGFan, Nova Crystallis, Zelda Universe

That is quite the pen name.

R* game design is far from outdated, if that's the case then most open world games design must be historic, as they "all" take from R* and can't even match the design of a R* game.

People need to stop shitting on R* for Red Dead 2.

If we're talking about Ubisoft, there's some merit in mentioning the Far Cry games and Ghost Recon Wildlands too. Like Jakey mentions, Rockstar are constantly flip-flopping between the scripted story heavy linear missions and their wide open worlds. I feel in this regard both Far Cry and Ghost Recon Wildlands' concessions in sacrificing story in order to allow the player to tackle the game in any order they want and in any fashion they want is apt. However, I can't imagine something like this for Rockstar's games at all. It's the antithesis to the Hollywood style of presentation they're going for.

Tbh, Rockstar stories are one of the main reasons I play their games so I'm not too fussed at all, especially with alternatives out there.

I wish people would watch the video, at least even just the introduction, before coming in to dump their hot takes.

Yeah, it's a genuinely good video. People will just read the title and get pissed but he brings up a lot of valid points which I find myself agreeing with.

R* game design is far from outdated, if that's the case then most open world games design must be historic, as they "all" take from R* and can't even match the design of a R* game.
People need to stop shitting on R* for Red Dead 2.

Counterpoint: R* needs to get better at doing the only thing they do.

I don't know about outdated, but the games are just not fun to play mechanically for me.

Skipping through it the video does make the distinction between the open world game design, and the mission design, and I would agree the the mission design is poor. You are playing the game in the same way an actor is 'playing' a character, following directions and doing takes until the director's vision is met.

The title they chose is one that will get more clicks, and also more people dismissing the point outright. RDR2's open world game design is another step in GTA 3 -> San Andreas -> GTA 4 -> RDR1 that pushes the envelope within the genre.

Counterpoint: R* needs to get better at doing the only thing they do.

Lol yeah they are so obviously trash at it.

None of their accolades or sales mean anything...truly they are so far behind everything else.

People need to start separating their opinions from reality.

I wish people would watch the video, at least even just the introduction, before coming in to dump their hot takes.

Amen

They really need to get away from using a face button to jog / run; it doesn't allow the user to control the camera at the same time.

Excellent video that outlined a lot of my issues with the game.

I think the only point I disagree with was needing to donate money to the camp to advance the story. Maybe certain upgrades/donate enough money to unlock different options in missions or something.

A 40 minute Nakey Jakey video? Lets Go! 2/3rds in and I can't disagree with what he says. Love the game but its so at odds with itself and inconsistent.

I wish people would watch the video, at least even just the introduction, before coming in to dump their hot takes.

Lmao right? Make a topic with the word Rockstar and Outdated and the people come runnin'.

I like how they do game design.

finish up the game and then give it a watch.

Lol yeah they are so obviously trash at it.
None of their accolades or sales mean anything...truly they are so far behind everything else.

People need to start separating their opinions from reality.

I played the game for 30 hours and walked away with an informed, fully fleshed out opinion. Why would I discount that in favor of sales numbers and a metacritic score?

As someone who tries their best to be an independently thinking adult, I generally don't care about sales numbers.

They really need to get away from using a face button to jog / run; it doesn't allow the user to control the camera at the same time.

Settings>Controls>Third Person Control Type>Standard FPS

Click L3 once to jog, click again to sprint.

I played the game for 30 hours and walked away with an informed, fully fleshed out opinion. Why would I discount that in favor of sales numbers and a metacritic score?
As someone who tries their best to be an independently thinking adult, I generally don't care about sales numbers.

I'm not saying you should discount your opinion for sales and accolades.

I'm saying you should separate your opinion from reality - And reality is the vast majority of people who play Rockstar games enjoy them, and would rate them highly.

Nothing can please everyone, and that's okay. But you're saying that one of the best game makers in the world (objectively, based on accolades) should "get better".

Everyone can get better, everyone can improve, but it's pretty pretentious to claim one of the best game makers in the world is bad or needs to improve when your opinion is objectively in the minority.

why on earth would sales matter

Conveniently ignoring the accolades part of that post aren't we...that's cute

Last edited: Dec 17, 2018

Lol yeah they are so obviously trash at it.
None of their accolades or sales mean anything...truly they are so far behind everything else.

People need to start separating their opinions from reality.

why on earth would sales matter

NakeyJakey?

But Jakey isn't Nakey

Why does he get his own thread?

Why does he get his own thread?

It's not about him. Rdr2/Rockstar get a thread a day....didn't you know? Lol
Easily could've been in the OT...#ijs

Yep. Looks like a game from the future, plays like a game from the past.

Excellent video that outlined a lot of my issues with the game.
I think the only point I disagree with was needing to donate money to the camp to advance the story. Maybe certain upgrades/donate enough money to unlock different options in missions or something.

True. It would make the game really tedious if they gated missions behind having to grind money.